The Day the Immigrants Left

[Admin]

"Immigration into the United Kingdom is a good thing and should be encouraged" Discuss

[Mr Keely]

Take time to consider the question. Read any responses from other students. Explain your position and justify your argument.

[j.moore]

yes

[Sey]

Imigration into the United Kingdom is a good thing and should be encouraged.
There are various reasons for this:
-They are cheap to employ which will lower firms running costs
-The British people in the UK are not cut out for the jobs that the foreigners do.
-They're seen to be very productive, hard working and reliable.
-A majority of investment into the country comes from foreign enterprize which goes to show that without imigration the country wouldnt be as successfull as it is now.

[Mehmet Solyali]

I can disagree with SEY because importing can also mean many British people being unemployed as immigrants agree to work longer hours and for cheaper wages. They know the value of a job due to there country being less developed than England. But i can agree because immigrants doesn't complain and moan as much and they are more dedicated to work because they need the job and the money to support their family and live a better life than they can in their own country. Therefore, the productivity will increase and less needs for machinery is needed. Every immigrant has a GOOD reason to come England.

[Sey]

that isnt disagreeing u LOSER! thats agreeing with my point.. "british people are not cut out for the job".. learn to READ!!

[Purple Dan]

a compelling argument however have you considered...

"They are cheap to employ which will lower firms running costs" - With the UK's delayed initiation of capital investment, is it a good idea to employ people as a short term solution, when some of these jobs are likely to be replaced by machinery that is more productive, efficient and will decrease a firms running costs by a significantly larger amount?

"The British people in the UK are not cut out for the jobs that the foreigners do." - If you motives are to reduce firms running costs, why not base your factory in indonesia and pay people willing to work for much longer at a fraction of the wage?

"They're seen to be very productive, hard working and reliable." - this is a normative statement.

Despite everything above, i agree that yes immigrants are vital to our economy.

Next time you hear someone complaining about immigrants, ask them the last time they were treated by an English doctor...

PDan

[Sampson]

"Immigration into the United Kingdom is a good thing and should be encouraged"

Immagration into the United Kingdom is a good thing in relation to employers as immagrated employees are willing to work at a high standard and usually at a cheaper price than british workers, this all being benifical to an employer and a business.

Furthermore, immigration in respects to labour is a good thing towards the economy as it makes the production levels more efficient, this increasing government revenue and GDP.

However, relating to british citizens and reguards to the unemployment statistics this is a negative aspect. this leads to costs of unemployment and reflects that the level which the economy could be reaching is not currently being maximised.

Also other aspects such as benefits claimed by immagrants has a negative effect on the government as it creates a bigger deficit of government income and government outcome. in result to this scarce resources are not allocated correctly.

In Conclusion, i believe immagration in the United Kingdom is a good thing and should be encourage ONLY to specific people who are seeking employment and if needed. otherwise, this is not nessicary.

Now if you dont mind i'm going to sleep

[Mr Keely]

Firstly a thank-you to the early contirbutors for their considered approach (Mr Moore excepted). Some clarifications.

1. It is fair to say that immigration has kept wages down for low skilled jobs. Be careful though as there are no immigrants out there working for £3 an hour because of course there is a national minimum wage.
2. Perhaps the discussion can be widened to consider that immigration is hardly confined to low skilled jobs. Think of all the foreign nurses, doctors and financial traders as examples.
3. We are dealing here with economic migrants (not asylum seekers or refugees) so unsurprisingly very few of them end up unemployed here. They have not travelled all the way from Poland (or Taiwan) just to sit on benefits as this will hardly give them a good nest egg to return home with. As the programme explained, the migrants are net contrubutors to the local economy i.e. the amount of tax they pay outweighs the cost of public services they use.

Let the discussion continue!

[Sam WebbE]

The question is not very specific , it does not state who immigrants are good for. This is important because they affect some groups of society differetly, e.g. british workers , the unempolyed and employers .

Firstly for workers, it is a negative thing that we have immigrants coming into the UK, as they may feel threatened by the thought of them being layed of in order for their company to employ a foreign worker who is likly to work quicker and for lower wages. This means they might work feel as though the y have harder in order to keep their job, leading to less leisure time and more higher stress levels .

Secondly for the unemplyed, like the workers, it is has a negative influence on them as employers are more likly to employ a foreign worker who works at a faster rate and for less money, this means the unemplyed will have less chance of finding a job unless they have unique skills which give them an advantage .

Thirdly, unlike the previous 2, immigrants have a positive effect on employers becuase they have to spend less money paying the wages of the immigrants (who will often work for the minimum wage) which saves them money, and will often get a better work load than an British person would give, these both will increase the profit margin of the employer/bussines .

[dazwheeler]

WAGWURN
In agreement with Sam WebbE, i believe that the question is too open to be able to say to who in society immigrants are good for.

From the video, we can clearly see that the immigrant workers undertake their new jobs with the upmost endevour, unlike the british unemployed workers who took over from them. To anybody looking to employ a new worker this single attribute stands out greatly and would near enough make up their minds when choosing who to employ. the film clearly states that the working immigrants pay as much tax as any other workers in England which also takes away any stereotypical view from the british soceity, the workers work for around the same money not cheaper as the labourer employer says. What arguement can any unemployed brit have with an employer employing someone from another nation for the same money, who plays the same tax than a british worker would. It clearly all boils down to work ethic the immigrants are working for a better standard of living for their families and take up low skilled jobs in britiain because they are used to it. The british unemloyed do not want to do low skilled jobs (effectively hard labour) unless they are paid highly which is evidently not going to happen. they are so hung up on the fact of they can use the immigrants taking their jobs as an excuse for being out of work, however from the video we can clearly see when givien the chance they do not work as hard or as good as the immigrant workers do so who would want to employ them. whether the government should keep allowing the immigrants into the country is not of my concern, however as they are already here and working better than the british there can be no excuses made by unemployed to not get a job if they are willing to do the work for the money provided.

[ryehardie]

Immigrants can be good for the british economy as they will come and do jobs that british workers are unwilling or unable to do at a high standard. Immigrants are willing to do jobs at a lower cost than british people and are more motivated to do the jobs as they have been brought up with a more working background.

However it is hard to work out if immigrants are paying the full cost of them being in the country because they are using british services but may not be paying the tax sufficient enough to cover these costs. The migrants that come to britain should come and work meaning more people working and therefore paying tax and helping to cover more costs.

The fact that companines in the british economy have a larger supply of people that are willing and able to work in that job which drives wages down and could in fact create more jobs as the companies have to pay less per worker and so may be able to afford more workers.

[Mr Keely]

Thanks again to the contributors.
1. Lots of talk about the low skilled immigrants who keep wages low i.e. shift to the right in supply. This is all well and good but some of your assumptions about the behaviours of British workers have been based on the idea that the British refuse to work for low wages. From memory, some of the English people on the programme claimed they were happy to work for minimum wage. Particularly the asparagus pickers. Why still no job then?
2. There has not been enough talk about skills as a reason for success. Work ethic is only one element. Also many of the migrants doing the low skilled jobs actually have university degrees in their own country.
3. If we are going to discuss the drain on resources of the new arrivals then we might want to profiile the type of person who uses services the most. The majority of migrants are young men. Do we really think they are the group in society that uses public services the most therefore adding significantly to the cost of local government?

Let the fun continue.

[RDriffield]

Immigration is a good thing and should be encouraged because:

The influx of immigrants benefits firms who want to maximize profit. Foreign workers are more willing and motivated to work as they understand how important there job is, coming from a less developed country. The British however, have no motivation to work in jobs that they either dislike or have no skill in.

The lower wages allows the firms running costs to be reduced and profits can increase.

For the British however, it can cause problems by lowering the living standards of the locals and it also causes stress to those looking for work but cannot find it.

'If they all went home tomorrow, this area would collapse'

This statement sums up my opinion on immigration. I think it is a good thing for the economy as the efficient foreign workers help increase government revenue and GDP. Without them, the economy may fall.

Mr Driffield

[Jay Houlden]

Immigration is a good thing because low skilled workers from other countries can come into ours to work in low skilled jobs and make products to a better quality standard then our workers therefore buisnesses maxiumising there profits. However from the program its proven that say in the factory after a days praticing the workers are more than capable to keep up to speed with the foriegn workers, so this puts the whole claim that the british are lazy to the false, so forgens coming to Britian does cause unemployment.

Also for these forgen workers they can get more money in low paid jobs over here then having there skilled graduate jobs over in the country they come from. If they come over to Britian they contribute towards our GDP and put the supply of workers to the right. If we didnt have these foregen workers then as proven in the farm they couldnt pick as may peice of asparugus's then the foregen workers.

[ArlieDosSantosDesangles]

In the programe on the first day two on the englishs fellla's didnt evan bothering turning up! i think this shows there lazyness and also contributes to who the company actually give the job to. Evan if it is for minimum wage, they may be immigrants but its not like there here and doing nothing ? if they were just chilling and not working then there a problem but if there working for it then its cool.
I think this relates to the unemployment trap or something :/ when you take money of the unemployed income tax and put it on the geezers wages so he has more drive to want to work. So if they had more drive to work the company may feel better about employing them. But the bussinesses are kinda still sending a par by still wanting to employ the immigrants for a lower wage.
This would lead to a positive feelign for consumers as the company will be able to make a greater quantity for a lower price and this would cuase a more competative market!
but you may also argue that the immigrants are not skilled and the younger greneration coming throught the ranks are equipt to better skills in the future !
Peacee

[Nathan.]

Agreeing with what Sampson said earlier on in the discussion, Businesses and entrepreneurs would encourage immigrantion, as it would mean they are able to hire more staff for a cheaper fee. This would result in more firms being able to produce more, which could also lead to a more competitive market, so from a consumers point of view Immigrantion would be a good thing aswell. The quality of the good is also better, as immigrants are wanting to work to a higher standard to ensure they keep their jobs. As we could see from the video the british workers had no real motivation when they took over the immigrants jobs, so businesses are not going to really want to employ them anyway. Also, the immigrants are more willing to do the low skilled jobs that british people refuse to do.

This can however however have a bad effect on the british economy. As the amount of immigrant workers in work increase, the amount of british unemployed people also increases. This leads to more goverment spending,as more people are claming benefits. Also, because of this people may not see any incensive to look for work, as they will have to work for the cheapest price possible to get a job whereas they could do no work and still get money.

Ite Kool.


Kinda looks like balley still

[Bàl]

Nathan watch innit.

After watchin' the programme i believe that immigration is vital to our economy.
If you actually watch the programme (Arlie didn't he's gassed) then you wouldve seen how
much more efficient foreign workers can be. This is good for British based firms because it helps them make more p'$ & they tend to pay foreign workers less.

[FoxyFowler]

I feel that Immigration into the UK is a good thing because they have more incentive to work and can work at a higher quality. In the town in the programme it is clear that they deserve the jobs because the english workers didnt even turnup to some of them. The UK workers have no incentive because they can get more money through benefits than if they worked. Also because they can work better this will maximise profits made by companies and these can be passed onto the consumers. It also increases the countries GDP because of production levels being increased.

However, the money that the unemployed have to claim in benefits takes money from the government which could have been spent on something else. Unemployment could also lead to a drop in the economy.

Peace x

[COLEY]

I feel that immigrants play an important part in the efficency and productivity of the uk ecconomy. This is due to the fact that immigrants have a higher incentive to work. Immigrants are good for businesses as they will be willing to work for lower wages whereas these other brehs feel it is not worth working for a low wage. This allows firms to employ more immigrants for cheap lowering costs and increasing profit. An increase of workers will also lead to an increase of output therefore increasing the UK GDP.

[j.moore]

Lets go on a brief history of Britain, Firstly Homo sapiens came to Europe 40,000 yrs ago, i think it took em another 20,000 yrs to get to britain :S then AD 43 these roman guys came,saw and conqured the celtic people, after that it was the anglo saxons then the normans,....... vikings are somewhere in their aswell, also trade routes and colonies through Q.vics empire, etc u get the picture..... so from this we know that Immigration IS britain, who are the 'British' to discriminate against todays immigrants? ??? if they continue to develope/expand our culture/economy then we should be thankful, and maybe those unemployed persons shown in the documentary should stop before they criticise other peoplle for thier failures.(although i no this is a minority and many people do live through incredibly unlucky conditions.)

Oh crap that would make better history homework, jus in case I underdeveloped economical factors, lets say that immigrants contribute to our gdp just as much as the british and seem to have better work ethics then them (shown in the documentary). It may even cause expansion and there fore create jobs for the British overall. wowwowowow smilies!: hahah.....erm Balley?...

[Ellie]

I don't like the fact that there are thousands of people coming in from other countries and stealing all of the English peoples jobs, especially when a lot of them are illegal. This makes the British people unemployed, forcing the Government to pay out more benefits. However lots of British businesses do benefit from them as immigrants are willing to accept very low wages and very long hours. They are also extremly good at their jobs. Shown on the video the foreign workers were doing double the amount of work than the British people. Some of the British people didn't even turn up for work which makes us look really bad! This just confirms that maybe immigrants are better suited for the jobs; they are definately more determined.
Though in a few years time the Government could start to face problems with the immigrants. Immigrants from the video where interviewed and a few said that they had been living here for years and that they think of themselves as British and not anything else, they also expected that in a couple of years their wages would go up. So could the nature of the British way of living be effecting the foreigners? Soon maybe nobody will be happy with really low wages, so are immigrants really a good idea in the long run?

[Rossington]

"Immigration into the United Kingdom is a good thing and should be encouraged"

I think that immigration should be encouraged because there are alot of far more skilled and willing people that come from broad to work for British companies. If British people feel unfairly treated by it then the should try harder really. Also, most of the people in the program (it was a long time ago so im probably kinda wrong) were unskilled, lazy and rude, why would a employer with half a brain employ them over a humble, hard working immigrant, for half the pay and twice the skill?
Immigrants add to the factors of production and create and outwards shift on a PPF. Sometimes, however, immigrants deduct from the GDP as they often send their money back to their native country. If people who have replaced a British person in a job, send the money back home, they put a British person out of work and their money leaves the British economy they raise unemployment and create more of a deficit in the Current account (i think).
Immigration should be encouraged, but only if the immigrant is planning to spend their money in the British economy.

Night x

[HarryH]

Immigration doesn't help British peoples attitudes to getting jobs as when there are more foriegn workers, then British people have less of an incentive to go out and get a job as they think that they will not be able to get one because of all the immigrants. This then causes the government to pay out more benefits and doesnt help unemployment.

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